#40 - Financial Intentionality w/ Dusty Breeding

Dusty Breeding

buy anything, live on credit and worry about it tomorrow and she valued stability. so early on in our, when we started, we did marriage therapy and have done marriage therapy since we got married. And we realized early on, hey, this is a conflict in our relationship. And so we had to go on a journey. So probably within a year of getting married, we read a book, Dave Ramsey's Total Money Makeover, and we just followed the system. And so we ended up paying off our debt.

in about two and a half years became debt free and then never looked back. And so from that moment, we've been on a process of mastering our own finances and building wealth, integrated wealth and helping others do the same. And so that kind of led me into helping other people with their finances.

Jeff Albaum

Dude, that's amazing. mean, that whole story is amazing, but like, I always think it's cool when you're working with someone who's, let's say you want to do a practice of some sort, like to work with someone who's actually done the thing that they're saying, that they're telling you to do, right? Like, I think that's a really like green flag, so to speak. So you mentioned integrated wealth. Like what does that term mean?

Dusty Breeding

Yeah, great question. And that is something that I'm really passionate about personally. My background is not in finance. I never took a finance college in a finance class in college, but instead my background is in religion and theology. I have a couple of master's degrees in theology, master's of divinity. And so my kind of professional background is in pastoral ministry, working with churches. And something that I found in that work is that often

the real struggle for people is in the practical day-to-day life of living. so helping people clarify their finances is a really important part of, I think, finding stability and thriving. But also money is simply a tool, right? I always say that money is like having a hammer and having a bunch of hammers.

is not really great unless you're building something of meaning and value. so integrated wealth is making sure that you have enough hammers to build the life that you desire to build, but also having a big purpose and meaning in what you do so that way you're not just collecting hammers.

Jeff Albaum

Dude, that's awesome. I've never heard the hammer analogy, but I love that. Like you go to someone's house like, dude, let me show you all my hammers. You're like, okay, like that's weird.

Dusty Breeding

That's right. Yeah, no, no one is really stoked or proud of having a bunch of hammers. But if you go to someone's house and they've built an incredible home or if they have built an incredible life like that, that is inspiring. And that took hammers to do, but but it's not the collection of hammers. And so I tell people that I don't really care how much money they have in the bank. And my goal for them is not to necessarily have

Jeff Albaum

Totally.

Dusty Breeding

millions and millions of dollars at retirement, but instead to live a life that when they reach the end of their life, they can look back on and say that it was lived intentionally and it was lived well based on their understanding of what that means.

Jeff Albaum

So is a lot like, let's say, you know, I came to you, was like, Dusty, like, I want, I want to work with you. Would the first, like, what would be the first question you asked me? Or what's the first, like, how would that first meeting go?

Dusty Breeding

Yeah, yeah. So I typically walk clients through a program that I've created called Wealthwise and it is a blend of education, just providing financial education, but also helping to clarify what I think wise use of wealth is, which is integrated. And so my, this is typically eight sessions. usually meet with clients to start with for eight sessions.

And the very first thing we do is we don't talk about money. Instead, we talk about the future. We talk about the vision that they desire to have for their life. We talk about their values. We talk about who they want to be a decade from now. And from my perspective, that's really critical to knowing the right financial strategy. You have to have a vision of the house you're going to build before you

kind of lay out the schematic or lay out the architectural plan. And so we start big picture. And so I spent a lot of time with people asking them about what they want with their money. What does that life look like? What sort of time freedom or luxuries, like things that they, physical things that they want, desire, that that's cool too. And so we kind of talk through who they want to be, the life that they want to live.

And then from there, that tells me the right way to talk about a good financial strategy. So usually my first couple of conversations with clients doesn't include much information about their money or about finances, but instead is pretty big picture.

Jeff Albaum

Hmm. And do you, does it start with like, what is the future that you want? And then also like, where are you at now? Not, from a financial perspective, but like, okay, you want time freedom. What does your time look like now? You want this, you're getting kind of baseline levels, like, okay, what do you want? Where are you at?

Dusty Breeding

Almost exactly like that. I use a framework that dr. Richard boy access created He's a professor at Case Western Reserve. He spent five decades researching how people make sustainable change so how people become the person that they desire to be and The the research that he did led him to crafting what he calls intentional change theory and intentional change theory is essentially

Jeff Albaum

Hmm.

Dusty Breeding

I say it has five components and the first component of intentional change theory is envisioning the ideal. So if anyone wants to change or wants to accomplish something, the first thing you have to do is clarify what it is that you want. So my early conversations with clients, we spent a lot of time envisioning the ideal. What is the dream? What's the vision? What do you want? The second step in the process is measuring the real. It's looking at the reality of today. It's looking at

could be very specific about what their finances are like. It could be about what their time freedom is like. It could be any sort of measurement, even something like a net worth analysis. things to kind of look at the reality for today. Then step three is making a plan for change. So it's creating a system or a training plan to go from where you're at to where you want to be. And then step four, an intentional change theory.

Jeff Albaum

Mm-hmm.

Dusty Breeding

is doing it. is the implementing this, putting it into practice, and then adjusting and making changes as necessary along the way. And the fifth component of intentional change theory is community. So something that Dr. Boyatz has found as a research was that having people in your life, having good people in your life was critical to every step of making sustainable, successful change. You need good people helping you build a dream. You need good people helping you

understand where you're at today and get people along the way. And so that framework is a little bit of what I say is like the method behind my madness as a financial coach. I use that. We don't talk about it every session, but that's what I'm using to guide my questions and guide our conversation. So that's a, that kind of frames how I walk people through my process.

Jeff Albaum

Yeah, do you and I'm going to take a guess or maybe I'll ask ask us a question like do you find that a lot of the work that you do actually you draw from your theological background as opposed to like financial background because I would imagine yeah, I guess let's leave it there.

Dusty Breeding

Yeah, that's a really great question. I'd love to hear your opinion on this as well, because I think for most people, the how of finances is not complex, right? Like you could go to chat GPT and say, how should I save and invest my money to build wealth? And it is going to give you a very simple process. And if you follow that,

Jeff Albaum

Right.

Dusty Breeding

you would build financial wealth. So my opinion is that for most people, the basics of building wealth are not super complex or hard to access. The challenge is the personal component. The challenge is the personal motivation, the discipline that's necessary, the conflict with your spouse or partner over the process.

Jeff Albaum

Yeah.

Dusty Breeding

the maybe limiting beliefs that you have about who you are or who you are destined to be. Some of those things are the challenge. Would you resonate with that? Would you agree with that?

Jeff Albaum

100%. Yeah, it's like what's that quote? If information were the answer, we'd all be billionaires with six packs, right? It's like everyone knows like, okay, I should spend less than I earn and eat salad more. But it's really hard to do that.

Dusty Breeding

Alright.

It is so hard to do that, especially when you live in a place like Austin and all the food is great. Or, you know, my wife and I during COVID, everything was shut down, but restaurants were open and donut shops were open. So we went on this like donut tour of LA for about a year during COVID where every week we would try a different donut. And that was a case where I knew I shouldn't be doing that, but it was so good. And that probably prevented me from having a six pack at the time.

Jeff Albaum

Yeah.

When, how do you think about like, cause obviously you're an entrepreneurial person and you're building this business and like you're on this journey. How do you think about the fact that like, okay, I wanna like inherently with, and maybe this is wrong, but this is my maybe a limiting belief. Like inherently with finances, there's like a destination in mind. Like it's always about like, I want to get to a certain place. How do you balance? And like I've noticed this in myself, we had a,

kind of knows we had a baby nine months ago. And so I noticed that like, for myself, it's really actually hard to relax. It's like really hard to like, just be and like if we're hanging out and there's family time, I'm always like, do I need to do the dishes? Do I need to do the laundry? Like, what do I need to do? And so it's really hard for me personally to just like turn off and be.

And so like, I'm gonna extrapolate that out to like a bigger picture of like, okay, we're on this journey of finances. You get to this destination, but you're in this mode or you've been in this mode of like building, working, trying to get better, improving. Then by the time you get there, it's like, crap, I didn't practice how to enjoy it, you know? And like, you don't wanna be the person who gets to the, know, whatever the destination is, you're like, well, now what? know? So how do you, does any of that resonate with you? How do you think about that?

Dusty Breeding

Yeah, yeah, I think that is a big challenge. And the way I think about that or try to try to navigate that in my own life is also connected maybe with my theological belief that we can't compartmentalize things. We are integrated beings. and so there will never be a day when when we can shut one thing off. Right. And we see this in people.

who retire, the data on retiring and its negative impact to your health and wellbeing is pretty wild, right? And I don't know it well enough to cite it here, but there's some pretty scary data that if you just retire and quit working, your life kind of is shortened. And I think that's because meaningful work is a part of what it means to live well. And so...

Jeff Albaum

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Dusty Breeding

I think all of the things that you're doing as a dad that I'm doing as a dad also with the nine month old, they're pretty integrated. And so I think I would be, it's ill advised in my opinion to try to shut things off. Now, I also think that clarifying enough is a component to this. So clarifying how much work is enough, how much free time is enough, how much money in the bank is enough.

I'm assuming you're familiar with Prof. G, who's a relatively famous podcaster and professor at Stern School of Business. He talks about having your number. Now, his number is very high. I think his number is like a couple hundred million dollars or something. And it was like, OK, when I hit that number, then I'm done. And but I think there's maybe an element of truth there that that we should all have some artificial metrics that that tell us we we are

Jeff Albaum

Yeah, yeah.

Dusty Breeding

or hitting a line that if we pursue this further creates complexity for our life. And I think that's true for money. Also true for other things like my wife and I try to have a date night every week. But if we tried to have a date night every night, even though that's a good thing, that might be negatively impacting other areas of our life. so finding the right balance or integration and recognizing that we can't just

close something off is maybe how I would think about that. Does that bring up any thoughts for you?

Jeff Albaum

Yeah, I agree with that. think that's like, but the number thing is interesting, right? Because it's like, okay, let's say you have your number, whatever that number is. I always like to think about, what happens if I hit that? I hit that on a Tuesday and then I wake up Wednesday, now what? And I don't wanna, I don't know. I don't know what I do. Because I think it goes back to what I was saying earlier, I'm not very good at.

just like, actually I do think I'm pretty good at being in the moment, but like it's hard for me. It takes like a while to get to that point, right? So I get the number idea and like I do think that's a good thing to strive for, but then I always wonder like, what happens after that?

Dusty Breeding

Yeah, and that's very much what I do in my coaching practice. So would say that's what maybe is a little bit different about what I do versus maybe other financial advisors or wealth management folks. My main focus is on thinking through what will you do? because I think you can and should have a very intentional strategy for reaching that moment. It shouldn't be a shock. It shouldn't be a surprise. You should

Jeff Albaum

Yeah.

Dusty Breeding

with math and the way we can run the numbers, I can essentially, you know, predict when you will hit that number, right? And so it shouldn't surprise us unless someone won the lottery or inherited a bunch of money unexpectedly. But for most people, the math is the math. And so if you keep doing what you're doing, there's some ability to predict how that will go. So it shouldn't be a surprise when we hit that number.

Jeff Albaum

Sure.

Dusty Breeding

And I think that means that we should have a really great strategy for what happens. What's the step? What stops and what starts when you get there? And that is, I think that's way I would think of that. I actually have a great friend who, my best friend, he's so driven. He inspires me. He is like,

Jeff Albaum

Yeah, yeah.

Dusty Breeding

a grind guy and from our early days in college, I just watched him excel and climb the professional ladder. And the other day we were talking and he is, he's on a path to do really well in his profession. And I asked him, like, what's your goal? Where are you, where does it stop? You're so driven, you're gonna win the gold medal in your profession. So what happens then?

Jeff Albaum

Mm-hmm.

Dusty Breeding

And his response I thought was really wise and humbling. He was saying that he's already as he's approaching that he's already making changes in his life to value and prioritize other things that will continue to grow in value and meaning as he hits this arbitrary goal of enough. And I thought that was really wise that he's, years away, but he's already incrementally making some changes so that when he hits that moment,

Jeff Albaum

Hmm

Dusty Breeding

It's not a surprise. He's already constructing a life that is still meaningful and matters.

Jeff Albaum

Yeah.

So what does that look like? You don't have to share the specifics of your friend, but what does that look like pragmatically in day to day for someone like me or someone like you?

Dusty Breeding

Yeah, that great question. I in my practice, I use the will of life, which is an ancient concept. It's not something I created. And a lot of life coaches and gurus use this, but it's a simply simply a way to look at your life holistically. And so I look at eight different areas of life, things like your physical well-being. I look at things like your relationships. We look at your hobbies and activities. I talk about spirituality and and

A variety of different elements that I think make a whole and integrated life. And in my, with my work with my clients, I have them give themselves a grade in each of those areas, a very real and honest, how are you doing today in that area? And so when we talk about money, we talk about how the money should be applied to provide incremental growth in the areas that they desire to grow in. For some people,

the wheel is really out of line. You'll see someone maybe giving themselves an A in finances, but maybe an F in physical health. And so that can be an indicator that as you are approaching your number, that maybe you really need to direct money and effort and time, your resources, to improving that particular area. So that's just one way that I like to have that conversation. I like to look at other areas of life.

Jeff Albaum

Yeah.

Dusty Breeding

and say, what does living well look like in those other areas? And then from a financial perspective, how do you direct your savings, your investing, your spending to provide growth in areas that you desire to grow?

Jeff Albaum

Dude, I love that. That's so cool. And do you, do you literally have them fill out the wheel? So it's like, you can see the, like the circles and like, where are you lopsided and et cetera.

Dusty Breeding

Absolutely. Yeah, we walked through a process of clarifying the ideal in each of those areas. And then I have them give themselves a grade as to how they're doing today against their ideal. So for example, if your ideal was to be playing pickleball every Friday and Saturday and hanging out with friends around the fire pit, if that was like your dream for for your hobbies and recreation and you don't do that at all, maybe you're giving yourself an F right in that area.

Jeff Albaum

you

Dusty Breeding

And so maybe that means, hey, let's start funneling some money. Let's adjust your budget to include some pickleball money, right? And so it's very much not necessarily what I think they should be doing with their money or with their life, but it's a process of helping them reveal their values, their ideals, and then measuring the reality against what they say they want for their life.

Jeff Albaum

Okay.

Got it. Got it. Got it. And do you find that most people are maximalists where they're like, well, I just want obviously A's and everything. So like, how do we do that?

Dusty Breeding

no, I don't see that actually. I, I, instead I see, two things. The first is, is that I think most people never really think about this intentionally. I think that when I present this concept, it makes sense. Everyone knows that your life is made up of these component parts, but rarely do we set, sit down and take the time to think about those component parts.

Jeff Albaum

Mm-hmm.

Dusty Breeding

And so I think the first thing that I see is just a realization of, this can be intentional. I can be intentional in every area of my life. So I think that's the first thing that I see. The second thing that I see is a limiting belief that money, if you have an A plus in your finances, that everything else will be good. And so I think

Jeff Albaum

Mm-hmm.

Dusty Breeding

that's often unspoken or maybe something you think but haven't really articulated. And then when we get into it, even for my really high net worth or high income clients, if you are feeling like you are crushing it in finances, when we start talking about this, you realize that maybe there's some other areas of your life that aren't going the way you want them to go. And so I do think that first of all,

Integrated living is something most people don't think about intentionally and then second I think that often we think money will solve all the other problems So if we have more money then everything else will be fine Those are the things that I think I usually see when when I dive into this with people

Jeff Albaum

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Interesting. And so how do you tend to advise them once they realize, okay, maybe I'm great in finances, but the other areas of my life are not where I want them to be.

Dusty Breeding

Yeah. Yeah. Well, like we were discussing earlier that that idea of having enough or having a number, I think that is usually something that has to clients have to sit with because money often fires up a sense of security or insecurity or a feeling of the future is unknown. So I should probably have more. And so

Jeff Albaum

and

Dusty Breeding

If that is the mindset, if there's a mindset of like, always need more money than that, that usually sucks time away from from being intentional in the other areas of life. So I think the first kind of step in the process is really sitting with the reality that it is possible to be financially stable and be financially secure. And then

It's saying, okay, when I hit that or as I'm approaching that, how can I make sure that my resources are adequately dispersed among the other areas? But I find that if there's financial insecurity, it's really hard to have health and wealth, integrated wealth in the other areas. So if you can't pay your bills, if you are in massive debt, that is most

assuredly impacting your relationships. Your spouse is probably feeling some stress and that's probably manifesting in the relationship. It is most definitely impacting your health, the stress that you're experiencing. It's probably impacting your social relationships or the way you show up with people. And so what I find is that that finances are really important part to to finding peace in other areas as well.

Jeff Albaum

Sure.

Hmm, that's so interesting. you find that or do you believe that you can achieve like there's this, you're firing on all cylinders, right? Like you're just, your wheel of life, you are A pluses in all of it. And that's maintainable or do think that that's a little bit of a naive belief?

Dusty Breeding

Well, that's a great question. I think the way I would think through that is, first of all, this is is self-report, meaning this is not a scientific method. Right. So it is your opinion. Right. And objectively, often our opinion matters most because even if everyone else thinks you're doing great, you might not think you're doing great. And my wife gives me a hard time about this because we you you and I connected at CrossFit and I love

Jeff Albaum

Sure.

You

right.

Dusty Breeding

working out and I never feel like I'm strong enough. Like I could always be stronger. So my mindset is like, I'm not enough there. And she's always like, you're lifting all of the plates at the gym, you're fine. And I'm like, no, I'm not. Right. So, so well, I really enjoy that process and

Jeff Albaum

Yeah.

Yeah, for those that can't see you on camera, you're a very buff dude, like you're very big guy.

Dusty Breeding

I approach that as a never enough. And so that is a limiting belief for me that I'm not where I could be. so there are some risk in any time you're providing a self-assessment. And I see that in both ways. Some of my clients are really down on themselves. And so as we run the wheel of life, there are probably more Fs and Ds than I would give them. And then sometimes some of my clients are a little bit

Jeff Albaum

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Dusty Breeding

to Pollyannish. They're seeing lots of A's and I'm looking at their situation saying, I don't know, you're in a lot of debt to be giving yourself an A in that area, right? So a component of the process, I think, is both accepting that this is your perception, but then bringing in, and what I get to do as a coach is I get to bring in some facts and some data that can help them

Jeff Albaum

Sure, sure.

Dusty Breeding

ascertain as to whether or not their belief is a wise belief to hold. That's something that I jokingly tell clients is one of my favorite quotes. I think it's Teddy Roosevelt who said, comparison is the thief of joy. And that is true. Comparison is the thief of joy. But comparison does play a role in our conversations. And the example I use is if I were a zebra,

Jeff Albaum

Mm-hmm.

Dusty Breeding

on the Mossai Mara of Tanzania, I wouldn't want to be the last zebra in line, right? The one that's closest to a lion. I don't necessarily need to be the zebra in the front of the pack, but I at least want to be the zebra like in the middle of the pack. So I'm not going to get picked apart by the lion. And so I think that's true for finances as well, that it doesn't necessarily, it's not necessarily important to compare and be better than everyone. But you also want to make sure that you are not lying to yourself.

Jeff Albaum

Sure.

Dusty Breeding

and saying, I feel great when the situation is not good or not safe or not sustainable.

Jeff Albaum

Yeah, yeah. So how do you, and that all makes total sense, how do you contend with going back to your, like you said, your limiting belief on exercise and fitness, right? I have something similar where it's like, but to me it's like this balance of, I'm not where I wanna be, but that actually is what keeps me driven, which is for a good hap, so to me it's like this positive feedback loop, and I love myself, I'm a pretty.

self-loving person. like it's not in like a self-deprecating way, but it's just like, no, like I know I can be better. So I want to improve. How do you, how do you balance that with like, yeah, loving yourself and making sure that like, okay, I'm, I'm, I'm great where I'm at, but I also want to get better. Cause I know I can like, how do you, how do you wrestle with those two ideas?

Dusty Breeding

Yeah, well, I have a thought, I quickly I'd like to push it back to you. How do you, how do you navigate that in your life with your health and fitness and drive and how, how have you, how has that gone for you?

Jeff Albaum

It's a struggle, to me, love, for working out as an example, right? I try to work out as often as I can, it's an expectation I have on myself, and my wife has been unbelievably supportive. She's like, early on in our relationship, we had the conversation of like, hey, what are non-negotiables? And so for me, it was working out. And so she's been unbelievably supportive as we've had a baby, to be like, go, do your thing, go get a workout in. And I'm so, appreciative.

And so to me, it's like I wanna do it because it makes me feel better and like it's an expectation I have of myself. So I do think I can be both. I can be, I need to go do this and I love myself. I don't think those are actually at odds with each other.

Dusty Breeding

Yeah, I fully agree. And a question or two questions that I pose to myself and others is how's it working out for you and how's it working out for the people you love? And those are the most important people to me that I have a solid sense of self and that I am caring for and being the person I need to be for the people that I love.

Jeff Albaum

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Hmm.

Dusty Breeding

And that is one way that I try to think about having the right amount of drive and also not allowing that to consume me. So for example, it might be working out for me if I am working so much that I'm making tons of money and really fulfilling maybe a very professional aspect. But if that's negatively impacting my daughter,

my wife, then they get a vote in that as well. Now, a random person on the street, someone on social media, they don't they don't get a vote with me. They're they're not in that circle of people that I'm committed to, to, to pleasing that I'm committed to loving well. And so I think that's one way my wife and I have regular check ins in our in our life almost every week, we're talking about how things are going for us as a family, how are we feeling about

Jeff Albaum

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Dusty Breeding

our work life integration, how what's on the horizon that we need to be cautious of. And that is, that is something that we do regularly. Actually, early on in our in our marriage therapy, our therapist Robert gave us a tool we he said, you know, every day, ask, ask yourselves these questions, ask, what did you like about us today? And what did you not like about us today? And doing that as a discipline gives you the space to to be honest.

And there have been times in our life and career and our marriage where we've said, hey, we're working too much. We need to dial that back. And there have been some times when we've said, I think we've let off the gas a little bit. I think we need to re-ignite our passion for our work because we have some goals of radical generosity or of travel and adventure or of things that we want to buy and do that

that if we were a little more driven, we would be able to live into those more. And so I think it goes both ways. But my take is being open to the feedback, honest feedback from yourself and the people that you love.

Jeff Albaum

Got you, got you, got you. Man, I feel like that could, what you just said could be an entire podcast episode. We could like unpack just those elements. okay, a couple questions I had. You said work-life integration. I imagine that was intentional. I love that. Can you unpack that a little bit more?

Dusty Breeding

Yeah, that to me, I think that reflects my belief that we cannot compartmentalize. And I believe this because of numerous books like the book, The Body Keeps the Score, is an example of this that that what we do in our bodies, what we do in our mind impacts us in all areas of our health and all areas of our life. And so

Jeff Albaum

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Dusty Breeding

the things that I do at work impact who I am at home and the things that I do at home impact who I'm at work. In fact, some friends of ours were invited to be a part of a panel listening to Warren Buffett, among others, speaking and someone from the crowd asked Warren what his number one piece of financial advice was. Like, what should we do? And his response was to

to be intentional with who you marry, that the person you marry is the most important financial decision you make. And so to me, that's like a reflection of the fact that we are integrated beings. How can my spouse impact my salary or my wealth? That sounds crazy, right? Until you have a really amazing spouse, my wife's really great and she is

Jeff Albaum

and

Dusty Breeding

maybe one of the biggest components to any success that I've had. Her support at home, her motivation, her encouragement has helped me be the person that I could be. And vice versa. I imagine if you're in a really difficult relationship that has some negative impact professionally as well or can. And so I don't think we can compartmentalize. I think that everything is integrated. And so we should approach life with that reality and accept that rather than fight it.

Jeff Albaum

Mm-hmm.

Dusty Breeding

or try to ignore it.

Jeff Albaum

Yeah, yeah. so how do you blend that into work life? just like, can't, I guess it's just what you said, like you can't compartmentalize. You can't like try to balance these two things because inherently it's actually the same seesaw. Like there's not, this is all part of your life so you need to incorporate it as such.

Dusty Breeding

That's right. That's right. So from a work life integration perspective, I think this looks differently for everyone. It looks different for your profession or your industry. But I think one of the biggest mistakes that we make in the education process is actually encouraging people to select a career path based on a title or a possible income or supposed life that you can live in that profession rather than encouraging people to

Jeff Albaum

Mm-hmm.

Dusty Breeding

shadow people in those roles and see what a day really looks like in that job. And I think the first path is looking at these metrics that are altogether usually unfulfilling. We know this from Date on Happiness. Arthur Brooks does a lot of this. He's a professor at Harvard or was in the past and had one of the most successful classes on happiness.

Jeff Albaum

Mm-hmm.

Dusty Breeding

And so we know that that professional success or money doesn't necessarily bring happiness. And so I think I would love for people to think about work life integration, thinking more about what is the life that I live while I have this profession or job rather than what is my title or how much money do I make? And so it is it is recognizing that that it is that there's not necessarily a single goal there that

Jeff Albaum

Mm-hmm.

Dusty Breeding

that it is integrated. are lots of things that are impacted by those decisions and making sure on any given day that you are being aware of that.

Jeff Albaum

Mm-hmm. How do you integrate? I was gonna say balance, but how do you integrate? You don't wanna be doing something where you're not happy for so many days in a row, right? Or not feeling integrated or aligned for so many days in a row. At the same time, there's things you have to do as part of life that are inherently not great. They're not pleasant.

So how do you think about integrating those two things and how do know when it's maybe time to make a change or maybe this is a time to push through? How do you think about that?

Dusty Breeding

Such a good question. Such a good question. I'm a firm believer that everything can and should be measured. Early in my CrossFit days, like back in the day, I started like 10 years ago, we had notebooks and we would write everything down. You'd write down every detail of your workout, how many reps you did, the weight you did, so that you could compare and track your growth or decline, right?

And I think that's true in this way as well. I think that there is a way to put some sort of measurement on every aspect of our life. And I don't think it needs to be super nerdy. not like actually that great at math. Like I said, I never took a finance class. Excel spreadsheets are not awesome with them. So I don't think it needs to be some big schematic, but I think even having some

Jeff Albaum

You

Dusty Breeding

check-ins like what I do with the will of life and kind of asking how am I doing in these areas? How much is enough? Being mindful of the impact of your work or what you're doing in other areas. So like you said, everyone has work that they have to do. And so I think asking yourself and reflecting, you know, is the sacrifice worth the reward?

And that should be a holistic answer is what you are having to go through today worth what you are getting as a trade off. And then having that question, not just with yourself, but the people who you love as well to allow them to speak some truth into that. That's why I would respond to that. Do you have any thoughts or would you think differently about it?

Jeff Albaum

Yeah.

No, man. I love that. Um, I think it's all, it's, it's, it's hard for me, truth be told. Like it's hard to like, no, okay. Like at what point, I think you kind of inherently know, or at least I think I know like with my gut, there's like a gut reaction that I have of like, okay, this is something that is worth it. Right. This is something that's not worth it. Okay. Cool. Um, but yeah, for me, it's just like a constant reevaluation. Um, of like basically every day you're like, okay, like, this what if the thing that I'm, you know, like the.

If today was my last day, would I wanna be doing what I'm about to go do? Right? And so like, if you answer, I forget who's, maybe it Steve Jobs or someone like very famous entrepreneur, but it was like, if you, if the answer to that question, if you ask yourself that question, if today was my last day on earth, would I want to go do what I'm about to go do? And if the answer to that question is no, too many days in a row, you have to make a change. So that's kind of where that initial question came from.

Dusty Breeding

Sure. Yeah.

Yeah, I think that's a great reflection and, it is hard. And, but I also think that that's part of what makes life meaningful is that there is risk that, that you could not do it well. So that means there, there is a, an ideal for your situation that requires a little bit of effort and nothing that's nothing that's worth anything is easy. And, and so I think

Jeff Albaum

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Dusty Breeding

part of the challenge reflects the magnitude of what's possible. Years ago, the minimalism movement was really big. I feel like it's kind of calmed down now, but maybe 10 years ago, the podcast, The Minimalists, I think they did a documentary, like it was really big. And my wife was kind of like really inspired by the minimalist movement. She did like a year of like no buying.

Jeff Albaum

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dusty Breeding

not buying clothes and things like that. And I think there's some maybe altruistic principles behind that. So I'm not knocking that per se. But my take has been to describe myself as an intentionalist. And that sometimes means being maximal in some areas. So the things that I value or that I feel are important to me or my family, we go big on. We enjoy it. We spend lavishly.

Jeff Albaum

Mm-hmm.

Dusty Breeding

But there's some areas that I don't think are important or we don't enjoy or don't value. And so I intentionally live as a minimalist in that way. And so for me, my, my take is, I've never regretted being intentional. so as I'm thinking about building a life, as I'm thinking about working, yes, I could die tomorrow. but, but if I'm intentional, if I've thought about my plan for the future,

that plan probably includes the work that I'm doing. And so even if I spent all day at work today and not holding my daughter, if that was a part of the life that I was intentionally building, I think I would rest at ease knowing that I was at work the last day of my life. And I think that comes from a deep sense of confidence in my belief that I have

Jeff Albaum

Hmm

Dusty Breeding

thought intentionally about the life that I'm trying to live. And it includes the components of the things that I have to do today. Even if it was a really bad day at work, right? Like even if it felt like a wasted day, if that is a component to feeding my family, pursuing work that matters to me, I think that's okay.

Jeff Albaum

You

Has there, I love that, I love everything you just said. Has there been something recently in your life that you realized, because obviously it sounds like you and your family are extremely intentional. Has there been something that there's like a recent awakening or being like, we do, like we need to make a change here because like we're so intentional in 99 % of our lives, but this 1 % is actually kind of huge. And so like we need to do, I'm just curious if there's like,

Like for example, for us, like we're trying to be very intentional what we eat. And then like we'll go through our fridge and we're like, my God, we have these sauces that are full of like all the sugar that we use regularly. Like this is not aligned, right? Like we got to get new sauce, right? That's just a silly example.

Dusty Breeding

Totally.

No, that's a great example. I think that is, those are those moments where the cloud from your eyes has been removed and all of a sudden you see that. And I'm sure you're seeing it in lots of different areas now when you make that decision. It's kind of like if you buy a new car, you buy like a four runner, all of a sudden you start seeing four runners everywhere, right? And I think that's a great...

Jeff Albaum

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah.

Dusty Breeding

revelation. great that those things get brought up for you. In our story, in my story, 100 % would have to say the birth of our daughter reoriented so many things for us and challenged some of our intentional decisions. So we'd been married 15 years. We loved life. We traveled a lot and did a lot of meaningful work that we felt was really meaningful.

And so we just delayed having kids. And then finally, we realized, hey, we are not getting younger. Every year we actually get older. so unless I want to be like an 80 year old at my child's high school graduation, we probably need to get after this. And so we had a baby and that reoriented a lot of things.

and we are changing up our time, it's reorienting exercise. And so for example, even in the last couple months, I have shifted from a performance mindset that I had prior to the birth and that I really struggled with after the birth because of sleep schedules as you know, and are probably experiencing now too, like everything's out the door. so physically haven't felt well. And I was really struggling with that mentally of like, I'm not performing. I'm

Jeff Albaum

Yeah.

Dusty Breeding

I'm gaining a little weight. I'm doing worse in my workouts. I'm not even going to the gym. And so I went from a place of performance and I had to reorient that and say, I need to focus on consistency. Intensity is probably not going to be there for me for a little while. And so in the last, even in the last couple of weeks, I've said, I'm just going to show up and I'm going to choose to let go of how I do or how I feel. And so I'm refocusing and I'm saying consistency is the goal now.

Jeff Albaum

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Yep.

Dusty Breeding

It's not intensity or performance. And so that's a simple example, but I do think even things like our schedule has changed and what we do, where we hang out, all of that has been reoriented in that way.

Jeff Albaum

Yeah, dude, I love that. feel like every parent is just nodding their heads as you're speaking. It's like it's very real.

Dusty Breeding

For sure, for sure. Yeah, all of my friends who had babies years ago are kind of laughing at me now saying like, I remember when you tried to get us to do a 6 a.m. workout and I didn't come, now you know. And it's like, yeah, now I know, now I know.

Jeff Albaum

Like I'm so sorry Apologize for my past self Do the other thing that you said that I really wanted I want to ask you about is you said radical generosity I That those are two of the most beautiful words ever. What is what does that mean unpack that a little bit?

Dusty Breeding

Yum. Yup. For sure. Yeah.

Yeah. Something that we see in media is what people would call like flexing, right? So if you see fancy cars, big houses, social media is a world filled with flexing. And I would say there's like a maybe a very unhealthy angle of that. There was a vice documentary that I watched years ago about people renting, you know, expensive cars for

one day a month and showing up and acting like it was one they own just to impress people. And then they couldn't see those people for another month because they couldn't afford to rent it again. Right. And so, so I think there's like maybe a very unhealthy angle to that. And then to some extent, there's like a professional angle to that. You know, as a business owner, you want to present yourself as doing well. You want to convey an image of confidence and, and success in any business that you're running. so I think flexing runs the gamut.

But something that I think is a very interesting and unexpected flex is radical generosity. And no one is radically generous for the flex. But the reality is if you feel that you have enough, if you feel like you are so okay, that things are, you have so much maybe trust in your stability or from a

religious or theological component trust in the sustenance that you will be cared for. If you have that level of confidence so much so that you're allowed to give of your resources to like actually give away your time or your money to someone else in need, to me that is such a powerful flex. And no one does it for the flex, but it is like, that is living well that you have

Jeff Albaum

Hmm

Dusty Breeding

you have, you found holistic integrated success to the extent that you can so radically help others in their situation in life. To me, that is maybe the pinnacle of integrated wealth. Now, I also believe that that should be a part of the daily process, however much money you have, or however much time free time you have, that it's, that's part of who we should be. And I think of that

as also being like a key path to happiness and contentedness that that we hold things with an open palm rather than grasping onto them. Years ago, I always tell the story years ago, my wife and I visited the catacombs of Paris. And that, I think, changed my life changed our life, because I walked among the skeletal remains of over six or 7 million people. And it was a reminder, I will be

Jeff Albaum

and

Dusty Breeding

bones someday, I will be my my physical flesh will no longer exist. And so it really challenged me to think, like, okay, what does it mean to live well, considering the path of humans is physical death. And so that's when I really launched my coaching practice. So that's I launched my coaching practice named it the skull and bone society to help people live with the end in mind to think about living from an integrated perspective.

Jeff Albaum

whoa.

Wow, I didn't realize that was the naming kit, that was the origin story of the name. Dude, that's wild. I also didn't realize that the Catacombs of Paris held that many people. I didn't know that.

Dusty Breeding

Yeah. Yeah. Yep. That's where it comes from.

Yeah, yeah, it's a crazy story of, of as the cemeteries were filling up, the city was growing and expanding. they realized that they needed to, to actually dig up the remains of people and put them somewhere. And there were a bunch of tunnels today. There's something like 200 miles of tunnels underneath the city of Paris that was created by limestone mining. And so they just started filling these, these tunnels, with the remains of people. And now it's a bit of a.

tourist attraction for lack of a better term, but you can go and walk among, you can only walk among like a mile or two of the, of the tunnels with the remains, but yeah, it's, it's a very, it's a moment to Mori. It's a reminder of our mortality for sure.

Jeff Albaum

Wow.

Yeah, yeah. What? Wait, what'd you say? Memento Mori?

Dusty Breeding

Momentum ori, yeah, the Latin phrase for remember that you are mortal. Remember you will die.

Jeff Albaum

Hmm. I love that. And not in like a morbid way, but I think that actually makes you live a lot better.

Dusty Breeding

That's the thesis of all of my work is that reflecting on our impermanence, our physical impermanence is the key to joy, contentedness, living well. And I think that connects with that radical generosity of saying like, I have more than I need and I can help others with it.

Jeff Albaum

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so going back, obviously, as we've talked about throughout the conversation, you're an extremely intentional person. What do you consume? So like it could be, do you read, do listen to podcasts? I know you mentioned Prof. G. So like, who do you allow in? Because I think that's a really interesting question, especially in 2026. Like, what stuff do you allow in?

Dusty Breeding

Yeah, yeah. Great question. Jim Rohn was an old like leadership guru back in the day, maybe the 80s or 70s. I don't even remember now. he was. Yeah, yeah, like, yeah, back. Yeah. Yeah. So that he had a quote that you are the average of your five closest friends. And so I think in modern times, our our five closest friends are our sometimes there are media inputs.

Jeff Albaum

Didn't he coach like Tony Robbins? Is that him?

Dusty Breeding

They're the podcasts we listen to, the books we read, the YouTube channels we follow, in addition to the physical people that we talk with. And so I try to be really mindful of that. And I do a couple of things. I love listening to podcasts. I rarely listen to music. So if you get in my car, we're probably not playing music. It's probably a podcast. And I grew up as a financial coach listening to the Dave Ramsey show.

Jeff Albaum

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Dusty Breeding

15 years ago, I listened to that every day. I listened to all of the episodes and that was really inspiring to me. Now I listen to Everyday Wealth, which is a segment of the Ramsey show. It's kind of curated for, oh, it's Everyday Millionaires, I think is the name of it. And that's what I listen to because it's a little more curated for people in a higher financial situation. So listen to that. I also

I, I love some of the classics like diarrhea, the CEO, some of those things that, that a lot of people listen to. So I listened to lot of podcasts, something else that I do intentionally. I'm a part of a men's Bible study on 7am on Wednesdays, and I am probably the youngest person there by about 20 years. So I get to sit at the feet of, of some wiser older dudes. one of the gentlemen in the group is 93 years old and just

Jeff Albaum

cool.

Okay.

Dusty Breeding

just sitting with someone who has been around for almost 100 years, there is a level of wisdom that I very selfishly take. I'm there as a receiver more than a contributor. I don't know that a 40-year-old has much to add to conversation when you're sitting among 70, 80 and nine-year-olds. So I show up and I learn and listen. And so I try to be intentional with that. And then I have a few close friends.

I have some really great friends who help keep me accountable, help encourage me. I have friends who will call me out on things and I have friends who I can call and say, I'm struggling and I need your support. so those are a few of the resources that I look to. I also try to read a lot. I try to read books and from a variety of different angles, everything from theology to personal finance.

wealth.

Jeff Albaum

Nice man. Are there any books recently that you would recommend that had a big impact?

Dusty Breeding

Yeah, yeah, I recently read Die with Zero. I don't have you read Die with Zero? Okay, yeah, yeah, it's a it's a popular book right now. And I think it's great book. I think it's a book that you shouldn't just read half of, because you might go sell everything you own and and give it all away. But but the author does a good job of saying like, there is a way to die with zero not hit zero before you die. Right? Like not

Jeff Albaum

I haven't heard of it.

you

You got it.

Dusty Breeding

not irrationally spend and kind of the thesis is spend your money while you're living and spending your money can also mean itemizing and prioritizing it for generosity or naming it in your will or giving it. But the idea is like, don't let your will be revealed at the end and make all of your financial decisions known. Instead, like you do it, enjoy the process of

Jeff Albaum

Mm-hmm.

Dusty Breeding

of giving generously, enjoy the process of spending intentionally, enjoy the process of caring for adult children, all of those things. So I think it's a good read. That was zero.

Jeff Albaum

I love that. I love that. you have you and your wife talked about like how you want to lead like what do want to do in terms of like leaving money for Lulu?

Dusty Breeding

For sure. Yeah. So we are big fans of planning for the future generation. So we superfunded her 529. And so we see that as a tool for her education, but also we're a big fan of and hope that she will receive scholarships. And so even if she doesn't pay a dime, I'm a big fan of military service. I spent some time in the military. And so if she were to

Jeff Albaum

Mm-hmm.

Dusty Breeding

join the army and receive free education. That's cool because the 529 can be used by grandchildren. And so we see this as a generational tool and that's why we went so heavy in it during her first year of birth. And so we are attempting to plan for her financially and both mathematically or from an investment perspective, but also hopefully doing our best to raise her up with good kind of personal

principles of living well and financial management. from what I hear from older parents, that's easier said than done, right?

Jeff Albaum

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I think that's one of the things that like scares me the most. But I love, think Warren Buffett said like, you want to leave your kids enough that they can do anything, but not enough that they can't do anything. Wait, no. Is that right? Are they hap-

Dusty Breeding

Yep. Leave them enough that they can that they they they can do anything but not enough that they have to do nothing or something like that. Yeah, or they can do nothing. Yeah. Yeah.

Jeff Albaum

Yeah, yes, yeah, yeah, thank you. Thank you, yeah. That's a cool balance to me, I like that.

Dusty Breeding

I actually have a lot of clients who are high net worth older people with with adult children and they are navigating. How do I do this? How do I leave money to the kids? How do I give money to the kids? And so I I'm really grateful to be able to sit with them and help them discern the right path. And I see people who have who really struggled and maybe have made some mistakes doing it. And then some people who have done it really well and something that I see among the people who I think are doing it well.

Jeff Albaum

Mm-hmm.

Dusty Breeding

First all, is intention. They're just being really intentional about it. They're aware of the risk. And so I think that's something I see. I also see limits and limitations and good communication, right? So that would be one of the tips I would have if someone were asking for tips for how do I pass wealth onto my child is communicate about it, right? It shouldn't be secret. It shouldn't be a surprise. If a child is receiving an inheritance at some point, that should be pretty clear. They should know and they should be.

Jeff Albaum

Mm-hmm.

Dusty Breeding

planning for what that could and should look like.

Jeff Albaum

Yeah, yeah. Do you guys talk about money like at the dinner table? Do you plan to as your kids grow up?

Dusty Breeding

For sure. I grew up in a home that talked about money all the time, even though we didn't have it. It was a stressful conversation at times, right? What bills need to be paid? What credit card do we need to open to be able to pay off the other credit card? So that was my take or my experience. And my wife grew up in a home that was just pretty quiet about money. They didn't talk much about it. And so there were a lot of questions that she had. And so we desire to...

Jeff Albaum

Okay.

Dusty Breeding

to build our own path and that would be talk about money from a very healthy age appropriate way so that our children grow up with great knowledge of our financial situation and skills and tools. So my wife and I talk about money regularly. We do our budget together. We do a monthly budget. We've done a monthly budget every month for the last 15 years. We've saved them. We have copies so I can tell you exactly what we earned and spent 15 years ago.

And when we started doing this, it took about 30 minutes because we didn't have very much money and didn't make very much money. Now it's usually several hours on a Saturday where we're running numbers and doing tech stuff. But I always tell people you should spend more time managing your money than you manage money for your boss. Right. Like that something we do in culture is like you go to work and you have to manage a budget and turn in receipts and, you know, make sure that that

Jeff Albaum

Yeah.

Dusty Breeding

that you're watching the money for the corporation that you work for. And then for some reason, we don't spend as much time and effort looking at our own money. And I think it should be the total opposite. you're managing your money should be way more important to you than managing your boss's money.

Jeff Albaum

Right.

Yeah.

100%. 100%. Dude, I feel like I could talk to you for hours. Thank you so much for I think you have one of the coolest jobs in the world. I think money is really interesting. And I love learning about people's financial situation. So I think like when we met and I was like, Whoa, wait, you get to like, see people's budgets. Like that's like, that's so cool. I don't know. It's just insanely interesting to me. So

Dusty Breeding

It's, I consider it to be sacred, a sacred space, right? Because money is very personal. It's very private for most people and it reveals a lot. It reveals your hopes, your dreams, your insecurities, your failures, all of those things. And so I, I considered these conversations that I get to have to be a sacred conversations that I, I

I hold with integrity and humility and gratitude that people are willing to let me into that space. hopefully together we can bring more peace and integrated wealth and success to their life.

Jeff Albaum

Dude, that's amazing. That's amazing. Where can people find you if they wanna learn more, they wanna work with you, they have questions, where is the best place for them to reach out?

Dusty Breeding

A great place to start is my website, skullandbonesociety.com. You can read around on that site about what I typically do, more about who I am and maybe my approach. And I think that's really important as anyone's working with a financial advisor, a financial coach or a wealth management expert, like knowing their values and knowing what drives and motivates their recommendations is really important. And so I would want someone to know who I am and to know when I bring

ideas or opinions to our conversation, you should know where I'm coming from. And that should align with who you want to be. Or else my opinions and ideas might not be the best guidance for you. So I would recommend checking out the website, skullandbonesociety.com. I'm on social media, you can find me, Dusty Breeding on Instagram. So yeah, any of those ways and I'm always happy to connect.

Jeff Albaum

Mm-hmm.

Amazing, amazing, amazing. Well, dude, thank you so much again for doing this, for coming on. I so appreciate you. And yeah, I think people should definitely reach out if they have any financial questions.

Dusty Breeding

Cool. Jeff, thanks so much for inviting me. It was great spending some time with you today.

Jeff Albaum

100 % man, thank you. All right. Yeah, see you Saturday. Bye everybody.

Dusty Breeding

Can't wait to see you at CrossFit.